In today’s podcast, David and Rhonda interview Dr. David Hanscom, a renowned and controversial spine surgeon who gave up a large and lucrative surgical practice in favor of helping and educating people struggling with back pain, directing them on the path to recovery without surgery or drugs.
Dr. Hanscom describes his personal journey and recovery from panic, pain, and other disabling somatic symptoms when he read Dr. Burns’ book, Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, and began doing the written triple column technique to challenge his own negative thoughts and overcome his own feelings of depression, panic, hopelessness, and anger.
He also began to study alarming research reports indicating that many of the surgical procedures were no more effective than placebos; and even worse, he could see that back surgery often had damaging and even disabling and horrific effects on patients. He also discovered that most of the patients seeking surgery for back pain could be helped simply through talk therapy and support, by focusing on the problems in their lives, rather than simply focusing on pain and pills.
Dr. Burns supports Dr. Hanscom’s premise, that even physical pain can have powerful psychological causes and cures. Dr. Burns briefly summarizes his own research on hospitalized inpatients with significant emotional problems as well as chronic pain. He wanted to answer the question of why physical pain and negative feelings so often go hand-in-hand.
To find out, he studied changes in negative feelings, like depression, anxiety and anger, as well as the intensity of pain, in more than 100 patients attending a 90 minute cognitive therapy group. He saw that there were often massive shifts in negative feelings, like depression, anxiety, and anger, as well as the severity of physical pain, during the groups.
He analyzed the data with sophisticated statistical modeling techniques to evaluate two competing theories about why pain and negative feelings go hand-in-hand.
Physical pain could cause negative feelings, like depression, anxiety and anger. This seems plausible, since physical pain is so debilitating, and just plain awful.
Negative feelings could have a causal effect on physical pain.
The analyses indicated that there were causal effects in both directions, but the most powerful effect, by far, was the effect of negative emotions on physical pain. In fact, the analyses indicated that, on average, half of the physical pain these patients were experiencing, on average, was the direct result of their negative emotions.
This means that if you’re in pain, and you’re emotionally upset, which would be totally understandable, that a great deal of the pain you are feeling is the result of a magnification of the pain by your negative emotions.
There is a positive implication of this finding that supports what Dr. Hansom is saying–namely, that if you are in pain, including chronic pain, and you are willing to overcome your negative feelings and deal with the problems in your life, there is a good chance that your pain will improve substantially. Some people, as David saw in the groups, will experience a total elimination of pain–something he often observed within the group.
It is also possible that you will experience a reduction of your pain, but not a complete elimination. And it is possible that your pain will not improve when your negative feelings disappear–but at least you won’t have to struggle with pain and depression!
So he has now devoted his life to making people, as well as his surgical colleagues, aware of the realities vs. the myths of back surgery. To learn more, visit his website, or pick up a copy of his terrific book, Back in Control. The book includes a section on your personal roadmap out of pain.
Rhonda and I are incredibly grateful to Dr. Hanscom for this illuminating, challenging, and profoundly personal interview. We hope you enjoy it! And if you’ve been struggling with any kind of chronic or debilitating pain, we hope you will find some hope, as well as a drug-free path to recovery!
David D. Burns, M.D. & Rhonda Barovsky, Psy.D.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com. Today’s featured photo is courtesy of Nancy Mueller–www.nancymuellerphotography.com.
If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.
* * *
I have two tremendous one-day workshop scheduled with my esteemed colleague, Dr. Jill Levitt, next year–
Workshops in 2020
High Speed Methods to Reduce Resistance and Boost Motivation
This is the most important, and least understood, topic in psychotherapy. Nearly all therapeutic failure results from the failure to address resistance effectively. Therapists do not understand what causes resistance or how treat resistant and oppositional patients who “yes-but” you or fail to follow through on homework assignments.
Come to this workshop and learn how to melt away resistance for incredibly high-speed recovery!
You can join this workshop in person or online (live streaming) from anywhere in the world!
The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts
TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?
As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?
Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.
You can join this workshop in person or online (live streaming) from anywhere in the world!
In today’s podcast, David and Rhonda answer two questions about suicide submitted by podcast fans.
Question 1. Why do shrinks kill themselves?
Dear Dr Burns,
Before I get to my question (which I hope you will consider addressing in your ‘Ask David’ segment of the podcast), I would like to extend my gratitude to you. Your book, Feeling Good, came to me at a time when I was struggling to make sense of my depression and anxiety, and it has been a vital part of my recovery journey. The exercises and the podcast have been such lifelines, and I am grateful to you for the incredible and life-changing work that you do.
I know you have addressed the topic of suicide in a previous episode, but I recently was struck by a piece of news from my alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, where a senior member of the college’s counselling services (CAPS) died by suicide. Here was someone who had spent his life’s work on promoting suicide prevention, and had a great deal of knowledge on resilience. How can we process/understand the decisions that someone like this might make to take his life. How can I arrive at the understanding that his decision doesn’t necessarily spell doom for the rest of us? What TEAM-CBT exercises can we do to make sense of the world when it might not make much sense at first glance, during situations like these?
Thank you very, very much,
Sindhu
Dr. David’s Answer
Thanks, Sindhu, this is a really great question.
I’ll put this in the Ask David folder. Should I use your name?
Here’s the short answer. It’s a lot like saying that an infectious disease expert shouldn’t get pneumonia, or that an orthopedic surgeon shouldn’t have back pain, or a broken leg. I know of at least three mental health professionals who have committed suicide, but my knowledge based is tiny. I’m sure there are thousands of mental health professionals who have committed suicide.
People can commit suicide for many reasons, and I can only mention a few here, as my knowledge, like yours, is limited.
Hopelessness is one of the most common causes of suicide in depressed individuals. Hopelessness always results from cognitive distortions, and never from a valid appraisal of one’s circumstances. Depressed people often turn to suicide, thinking (wrongly) that it is the only escape from their suffering.
You may have done something that you are profoundly ashamed of, and fear it is about to be made public. Like the fellow in New York arrested for child abuse who hung himself just a few weeks ago.
I am convinced that sometimes people commit suicide to get back at someone they are angry with, someone perhaps who rejected them.
Physician-assisted suicide. I believe that physician assisted suicide is absolutely indicated and compassionate if someone is in excruciating pain from an irreversible terminal illness.
The Achievement Addiction. Feelings of failure and worthlessness. In our culture, we sometimes (wrongly) base our feelings of self-esteem on our success in life, our income, or our achievements. And so, if your achievements are only “ordinary,” you may feel worthless, like “a failure,” and kill yourself.
The Love Addiction: Many people (wrongly) tell themselves they must be loved to feel happy and worthwhile, and then kill themselves when they are rejected by someone they thought they loved and “needed.”
Drug and alcohol abuse: These habit, when severe, can greatly disrupt a person’s life. They can also make someone more impulsive, and more likely to jump or pull the trigger when intoxicated.
There are likely way more causes than just these common ones. For example, a psychotic process like schizophrenia might sometimes play a role as well.
I suspect you may have a hidden “Should Statement,” telling yourself that a mental health professional “should not” get depressed or have the urge to commit suicide. But to me, that would be a nonsensical claim, and it isn’t even clear to me why you might think that way. In fact, most people are drawn to this profession because of their own unresolved suffering. There is, I suspect, MORE depression and anxiety in mental health professionals, but I have not seen data, so I’m not certain of this. But I’ve trained tens of thousands of mental health professionals, and pretty much ALL of the ones I’ve known personally have struggled at times, and sometimes intensely.
People also ask, “Why did so and so commit suicide? S/he was so famous and loved and wealthy!” Well, famous and loved and wealthy people often suffer and commit suicide, too.
Finally, I would say that suicide is both tragic and devastating—for the patient for sure, for the family and friends who typically suffer for years, and for the therapist as well. Fortunately, the family and friends can be helped, if they ask, but it is too late for the person who was depressed. And the tragedy is needless in most cases, since the patient’s intense negative feelings can be treated effectively in nearly all cases.
David
Question 2. How can you find out if a friend or loved one is suicidal?
Many people are afraid to ask a depressed friend or family member if they are feeling suicidal, fearing this will create conflict or may even cause the person to become suicidal. For the most part, these fears are unfounded, and the biggest mistake could be avoiding the topic.
Most people who are feeling suicidal are willing to discuss their feelings fairly openly. Several types of questions can be useful.
Suicidal thoughts or fantasies. Most people with depression due have suicidal thoughts or fantasies from time to time, and these are not necessarily dangerous.
First, you can ask, “do you sometimes feel hopeless, or have thoughts of death, or wishing you were dead?” If s/he says yes, you can ask him / her to tell you about these thoughts and feelings. You can also ask if s/he thinks of suicide as the only way out of his / her suffering.
Second, you can ask if s/he simply has passive suicidal thoughts, like “Sometimes I feel like I’d be better off if I were dead,” or active suicidal thoughts, like, “Sometimes I have fantasies of killing myself.”
Suicidal urges. You can ask if s/he sometimes has urges to kill himself / herself. Suicidal thoughts or fantasies without suicidal urges are usually not especially dangerous.
Suicidal plans. You can ask if s/he has made any plans to actually commit suicide. If so, what method would s/he use? Jumping? Shooting? Hanging? Cutting?
You can also ask if s/he has been acting on these plans. For example, if shooting is the choice, you can ask if s/he has access to a gun and bullets. If jumping is the choice, you can ask where s/he plans to jump from.
Deterrents. When evaluating suicide, you can also ask if there are any strong deterrents, such as religious beliefs, impact on family and friends, and so forth. If there are no strong deterrents, the situation is more dangerous.
Desire to live, desire to die. You can also ask the person how strong their desire to live is, and how strong is their desire to die?
Past suicide attempts. If the person has made suicide attempts in the past, the risk of a future suicide attempt is greater.
Drugs and alcohol. You can ask if the person drinks or uses drugs, and has ever has a stronger urge to commit suicide when intoxicated. This is a danger sign.
Impulsiveness. Some people make suicide attempts when they’re feeling impulsive, kind of on the spur of the moment. You can ask if they every have these kids of sudden impulses.
Willingness to reach out. You can ask if they’d be willing to reach out and ask for help if they ever have a suicidal urge.
Honesty. You can ask if they were felt reasonably open and honest in asking your questions, or if it was difficult to answer some of the questions.
Once you have explored these types of questions, you can decide whether action is necessary. If the person seems in danger of making a suicide attempt, you can bring him / her to an emergency room for an evaluation.
If s/he refuses, you can dial 911 and ask for help. Generally, the police will come immediately and do a safety check, and bring the person to an emergency room involuntarily if necessary. You can also call his or her therapist and alert that person to the situation.
This may all sound grim and very unpleasant, but these kinds of conversations can sometimes be lifesaving, and can protect you from much greater pain later on.
In a future podcast, we will focus on this question: How do you treat someone who is suicidal using TEAM-CBT?
David D. Burns, M.D. & Rhonda Barovsky, Psy.D.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com. Today’s featured photo is courtesy of Nancy Mueller–www.nancymuellerphotography.com.
If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.
* * *
I have two tremendous one-day workshop scheduled with my esteemed colleague, Dr. Jill Levitt, next year–
Workshops in 2020
High Speed Methods to Reduce Resistance and Boost Motivation
This is the most important, and least understood, topic in psychotherapy. Nearly all therapeutic failure results from the failure to address resistance effectively. Therapists do not understand what causes resistance or how treat resistant and oppositional patients who “yes-but” you or fail to follow through on homework assignments.
Come to this workshop and learn how to melt away resistance for incredibly high-speed recovery!
You can join this workshop in person or online (live streaming) from anywhere in the world!
The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts
TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?
As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?
Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.
You can join this workshop in person or online (live streaming) from anywhere in the world!
How does someone deal with burnout if they don’t have the means to quit their job and don’t think they have time for therapy?
How can you say “No” and set boundaries at work?
Won’t people be disappointed in you if you say no?
What should I do if I hate my therapist?
What qualities should people look for in a therapist?
If someone is struggling with anxiety, they don’t want to just go to any therapist, they want to find someone who can really help them. How can find a therapist who has the specific skills that will help you?
If you disclose a problem such as substance abuse, is my therapist required to report it?
Why do I only get angry/upset with my inner circle including my family and partner?
I feel so insecure, small and insignificant in the real world. How can I help this feeling of overwhelming fear and anxiety?
Can you describe how you’ve seen the evolution of your patients change over the past few years? Because mental health is a bigger topic in the media, more people are talking about it, and more people are open to seeking help. It’s slowly becoming less stigmatized. So have you seen the attitudes of your patients change? And have you seen the levels of resistance that they come in with change over the past few years?
What makes TEAM-CBT different from other forms of therapy practices?
And more!
I hope you enjoy Jill’s interview!
David
* * *
You may have missed the Calgary and South San Francisco intensives, but there will be one more awesome intensive this fall, and it’s right around the corner!
High-Speed Treatment of Depression
and Anxiety Disorders
A Four-Day TEAM-CBT Advanced Intensive
November 4 – 7, 2019
The Atlanta, Georgia Intensive
I also have two tremendous one-day workshop scheduled with my colleague, Dr. Jill Levitt, next year–
Coming up in 2020
High Speed Methods to Reduce Resistance and Boost Motivation
This is the most important, and least understood, topic in the behavioral sciences. Nearly all therapeutic failure results from the failure to address resistance. Therapists do not understand what causes resistance or how treat it effectively.
Come to this workshop and learn how to melt away resistance for incredibly high-speed recovery!
The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts
TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?
As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?
Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.
I just wanted to tell you I LOVED the latest podcast on when not to help. I know you mentioned you’ve covered many of these ideas before, but this podcast really helped it all sink in for me, especially as a non-therapist. Also, I can’t seem to find Dave’s email, but I wanted to say I thought he added some especially valuable perspectives as a non-therapist.
Rhonda, I absolutely loved the story you shared about your son. And I’m so grateful for the therapist that allowed her 5 secrets response to be played. Listening to that was incredibly eye-opening – I’ve made the same mistake countless times but didn’t really get it until now.
Thank you both for all your amazing work on these podcasts!
best,
Daisy
David’s Reply
Thanks Daisy for your kind and thoughtful comment! I’m so glad this message is “getting through” at last! Some ideas are so hard to convey, because they seem to go against our natural human impulses, like the urge to jump in and “help” or “rescue” a friend or loved one who is in distress.
David
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com.
If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.
* * *
You may have missed the Calgary and South San Francisco intensives, but there will be one more awesome intensive this fall.
High-Speed Treatment of Depression
and Anxiety Disorders
A Four-Day TEAM-CBT Advanced Intensive
November 4 – 7, 2019
The Atlanta, Georgia Intensive
I also have two tremendous one-day workshop scheduled with my colleague, Dr. Jill Levitt, next year–
Coming up in 2020
High Speed Methods to Reduce Resistance and Boost Motivation
This is the most important, and least understood, topic in the behavioral sciences. Nearly all therapeutic failure results from the failure to address resistance. Therapists do not understand what causes resistance or how treat it effectively.
Come to this workshop and learn how to melt away resistance for incredibly high-speed recovery!
The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts
TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?
As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?
Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.
The Incredible Atlanta Intensive Is Just Around the Corner—November 4 – 7, 2019!
With David D. Burns, MD
The Atlanta intensive is just days away, and there are still a few slots open! If you need 32 CE credits, or want to learn state of the art therapy techniques for depression and all of the anxiety disorders, you might want to consider this amazing workshop.
You’ll work incredibly hard for long hours, but this training will change your life. You’ll discover that incredibly rapid recovery from depression and anxiety is now possible, and I’ll show you how to use these techniques this with your most difficult and challenging patients.
This will be my first east coast intensive in more than 25 years. I’m older now, and less excited by airports! But it’s always fun teach in Atlanta.
The intensives are usually mind-blowing. You’ll probably experience personal enlightenment, with freedom from feelings of self-doubt and insecurity. You’ll also learn many incredible therapy techniques that can transform the way you do therapy. This workshop will provide you with greater feelings of satisfaction in your clinical work and in your personal life as well.
The registration website has been impaired, and is now being fixed. Please persist if you’re having trouble with registration. Or, call Courtney Kendler right away. She can register you personally if needed: 1-248-978-7787.
I hope to see you in Atlanta!
Warmly,
David D. Burns, MD
This will be my first east coast intensive in more than 20 years! If YOU can join me, it will be over the top!
This workshop has been approved for Levels 1 through 3 TEAM-CBT Certification and is suitable for novice as well as highly experienced therapists and coaches. Graduate students are also welcome.
The intervention on anxiety was so inspiring. Very powerful . . . a healing and amazing experience!
I loved the Stage Fright demonstration. The stage was full of such beautiful people. I love your spontaneity, David, normalizing it with your nightmarish experience. Yeah! Celebrate!
Such a safe environment. Vicarious healing. Awesome!
Superb at all levels. Dr. Burns’ brilliance shines through even in the difficult moments.
The unplanned and spontaneous anxiety (fear of public speaking) group was a real WOW!
It was beautiful!
It was Fantastic to see all the people with public speaking anxiety get up on stage. Fantastic! They looked at the fear monster in the face and realized it has no teeth!!
The Externalization of Voices role-play was awesome.
Love the sensibility of joyous failure!
Fantastic training!
Amazing!
David’s integration of philosophy and spirituality into the TEAM-CBT model—absolutely brilliant! An amazing experience!
Today was very emotional for me. I didn’t have the courage to get up on stage and speak about my public speaking anxiety, but it was a wonder to watch the other participants share their own struggles. It brought tears to my eyes. Wonderful!
During the practice with the Externalization of Voices, I experienced a shift that I did not think would be possible.
Demos, role-plays. Helpers were fantastic, supportive. I learned a lot. Lots of tears. Facing my demons. Thank you, Dr. Burns!
I think these ideas are light years better than most things that typically happen in therapy! Very motivating!
We saw healing happen before our very eyes!
Wow, fabulous! To go through the whole exercise was rewarding. The helpers were awesome. Thank you, Dr. Burns, for your awesomeness and helpful, brilliant mind.
WOW WOW WOW! No words needed. AMAZING! Thank you for this experience!
Thrilling!
Superb!! Thank you, Dr. Burns!
Our helper was awesome. Loved the night session! A+!
Lately, I’ve received numerous emails asking, in essence, “how can I help my loved one who has this or that problem?” I would say that I get several emails like that every week.
For example, here’s one from a man we’ll call “Karl.”
Love you podcasts. Listen as often as I can. keep reading your books.
Our son is in an unhappy marriage. Last night we talked and he mentioned that there is no love in their marriage. Just coldness. The children “feel” the chasm. There is a lack of trust in the home.
Our son feels he did not protect the children in defense of their mom, even though he disagreed with her. Now the children feel their father does not have their best interests. Our daughter-in-law feels that everything is fine. She uses the passive-aggressive “silent treatment” to punish others.
Our son says she is controlling and manipulative, and that the children have become that way also. There’s no truth in the home. Years ago, she wanted them to go to counseling, but our son refused; now the tables are turned.
Sad. We want to help but don’t know how to approach it.
What podcasts would be helpful to us? And to our son and daughter-in-law? We visit our grandchildren often, sometimes one-on-one. Communications are open with them and with our son.
Daughter-in-law feels, and tells others, we are conspiring against her
Karl
Thank you Karl, for that moving email. It can be really sad and frustrating to see a couple in conflict who are at odds with each, especially when your son and grandchildren are involved. And I can imagine you might also be feeling anxious and a bit helpless, and deeply concerned!
When I wrote Feeling Good forty years ago, I tried to make it clear that the cognitive therapy tools I described in that book are for people to use to help themselves. It is okay to correct your own distorted negative thoughts in order to break out of a bad mood. But it is generally NOT a good idea to try to correct someone else’s distorted thoughts, because they’ll just get ticked off at you!
This is a very understandable error, because you may get really excited by the things I’m teaching, and how helpful they can be when you’re feeling depressed, anxious, or insecure. So it just makes sense that you would want to share these tools with others.
But those are generally NOT the tools to use when you’re talking to your son, daughter, spouse, or friend who’s feeling down in the dumps. There is a way to help someone you love who’s hurting—but you’ll have to use an entirely different set of tools and skills—the Five Secrets of Effective Communication—WITHOUT trying to “help.”
So, the short answer to your question is—skillful listening is all that’s called for. Anything more runs the risk of getting you into trouble. But this may require a radical change in the way you communicate, as well as your personal philosophy.
Let’s talk about what TO do, and what NOT to do when patients, friends or people you care about express angst, or seem troubled, or describe problems in their lives, and they seem to be hurting a lot.
DO NOT
Give advice
Try to help
Try to cheer the person up
Try to solve the problem s/he is struggling with
Try to get the other person to think or act more positively
Try to minimize the problem by saying it’s not that bad, or things will get better.
Point out ways the other person may be thinking or acting in a self-defeating manner.
Before we tell you what does work, let me focus on just one of these errors, to bring it to life for you. Recently, Rhonda and I recorded a live therapy session with a man named who was upset because his mother had lost the use of her legs to due a rare neurological disorder, and needed much greater care in an assisted living facility. This required selling the house his mother was living so they could afford the assisted living facility, and it was a great loss for everyone, since Kevin was raised in that house, and his parents and grandparents had lived there, too.
After Rhonda and I empathized with him for about thirty minutes, we asked the other therapists to offer empathy as well, as part of their practice and training that evening. We stressed the importance of simply summarizing what Kevin had told us (Thought Empathy) and how he was feeling (Feeling Empathy), without trying to “help.” One of the therapists, who was new to the group, kind of missed the mark, She did what we call “cheerleading,” telling Kevin what a wonderful and heroic person he was without acknowledging what he’d be saying and how painful it was for him.
You’ll hear this brief excerpt from the session in the podcast. When we asked Kevin how he felt about her comment, he had to tell her that he was embarrassed, and not helped, by what she’d said.
Here’s why. When you don’t acknowledge someone’s profound negative feelings of loss, anxiety, sadness, anger, and more, you might unintentionally convey the message that you don’t want to hear about how they really feel inside. And when you cheerlead, it also conveys the message that the person is not very intelligent, and simply has to be cheered up, and then everything will be okay!
We cannot be too hard on this therapist, because her efforts came from the heart, and I’m sure she felt sad for this man. And most of us have made the same mistake at times, or even often. I frequently hear parents trying to cheer their children up, or trying to tell their children what to do, or how to change, without really listening.
But, most of the time, it just doesn’t work like that!
Now that you know what NOT to do, what can you do that WILL help?
DO
Use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, with an emphasis on the listening skills. One of the most important skills is called Feeling Empathy—simply acknowledging how the other person is feeling, and asking them to tell you more, and if you got it right.
For example, let’s say a friend or family member is procrastinating on something important, like a research report or college application, and is feeling pretty upset and self-critical. You could say something like this: “It sounds like you’re beating up on yourself for procrastinating, I’m wondering if you’re feeling
down, sad or depressed?
anxious, worried, pressured, or nervous?
guilty or ashamed?
inadequate, worthless, defective, or inferior?
alone or lonely?
humiliated or self-conscious?
discouraged or hopeless?
stuck or defeated?
angry, annoyed, hurt, or upset?”
I find that people really like it when I ask these questions, and I let them answer each one. Then I ask them about their negative thoughts. What are they telling themselves? What are the upsetting messages?
When you use this approach, you are literally doing nothing to “help” the other person, but if you listen skillfully, she or he will probably really appreciate your listening, and you may end up feeling really close. In fact, I (David), had this exact experience just a couple days ago with a student who was struggling and feeling down.
Often, the person who’s depressed will be someone you love, like a family member, so your concerns for him or her, and your desire to “help,” are an expression of your love. But listening skillfully will likely be a whole lot more effective. And you can express your own feelings, too, with “I Feel” Statements, like “I feel sad to hear how down you’ve been feeling, because I love you a lot.”
Example
A woman named Clarissa was concerned because her son, Billy, who is in his early 20s, had been severely depressed for several years, and had not responded to treatment with antidepressants and even lithium. Clarissa had read my book, Feeling Good, and listened to almost all of the Feeling Good Podcasts. She described herself as a true “TEAM-CBT convert because she’d worked with a therapist trained in TEAM-CBT and no longer suffered from the depression and anxiety she’d struggled with most of her adult life. She agreed with a lot of what I’d said on the podcasts about the chemical imbalance theory (there’s no convincing evidence for it) and antidepressants (recent research suggests they do not outperform placebos to a clinically significant degree).
But Billy was saying things like this:
“Mom, I KNOW I have a chemical imbalance because this cloud will suddenly come over me, and I feel TERRIBLE. It’s not about negative thoughts—I don’t have any negative thoughts. My depression is clearly the result of a chemical imbalance, and I feel doomed by my genes.”
Then Clarissa would try to cheer him up, which always failed, or would try to convince him that it’s not about a chemical imbalance and that if he really tried TEAM-CBT, he could overcome his depression, just as she had done. These are such common errors!
How could Clarissa respond more effectively? If she focuses on good listening skills, instead of trying to win an argument, she might say something like this:
“Billy, I really love you, and feel so sad to hear about your depression. You’re absolutely right, too. Sometimes a bad mood seems to come from out of the blue, with no rhyme or reason. And genes can be important. I’ve struggled with depression in the past, and maybe you’ve inherited some of my genes. Tell me more about how you’ve been feeling. Have you been feeling down, anxious, ashamed, hopeless, or angry? What you’re saying is so important, and I really want to her what’s it’s been like for you.”
Can you see that Billy would be more likely to open up and might even share some things that he’s been hiding, out of a sense of frustration, anger, or shame? And can you also see that providing some love and support—pure listening, with compassion—might be a lot more helpful than getting into an argument about the causes of depression? He might open up about all sorts of things that have been eating away at him—problems with girls, sex, sports, or his studies, or concerns about his looks, or even feelings of shame about his depression.
The next question is—when DO you help someone? And HOW do you help them.
The approach I use as a therapist might be the same approach you’d want to use. At the beginning of every therapy session, I empathize without trying to help, exactly as I’ve been teaching you in this podcast, and in this document, and I give the other person some time—typically about 30 minutes or so—just to vent while I use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication—listening skillfully—without trying to “help.”
Then I ask the patient to grade me on empathy. I say, “How am I doing so far in terms of understanding how you’re thinking and feeling? Would you give me an A, a B, a C, or perhaps even a D?”
Most of the time, the other person WILL give you a grade. If they give you an A, you’re in good shape. But if they give you an A-, or a B+, or worse, ask them to explain the part you’re missing, or not getting right.
When they tell you, you can use the Five Secrets again, summarizing the part you missed, and then ask what your grade is, to see if you’ve improved. Usually, your grade will improve a lot.
Do NOT try to “help” until you received an A!
So, let’s assume you’ve gotten an A. What then?
Then I do what’s called the Invitation Step in TEAM therapy—I ask if the other person wants help with any of the problems s/he has been discussing. You can ask the same question.
If the other person does NOT want help, but just wanted to talk and get support, your job is done. You can also ask if they want to talk some more. Most of the time, all people want is a little listening and support, and they’re not looking for help or advice.
But if the other person DOES want help, you can ask what kind of help they’re looking for. Then you can decide if you’re in a position to provide that type of help. Sometimes, the help they’re looking for might not be something you can provide. For example, they may be angry at someone they’re not getting along with, and may want you to tell the other person to change. I explain that this is not something I would know how to do, but I could possibly help them change the way they interact with that person.
This may sound really simple, but it takes a lot of practice and determination! It can be a lot harder than it looks.
Many people will NOT want to go down this road, and will insist on jumping in to help or cheerlead. You can do that if you want, but in my experience, pushing help on people who are hurting is rarely helpful. The “need” to help or rescue can result from your love and compassion, but it can also result from narcissism, codependency, or the desire to control or dominate another person. I see it as a kind of an addiction, too.
If you want to learn more about this, here are some things you can do:
You can read my book, Feeling GoodTogether, and do the written exercises while reading, so you can master the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. This is a BIG assignment, but the reward, in terms of more loving and satisfying relationships with the people you love, will be equally great.
You can try using “I Feel” Statements and Feeling Empathy with at least one person every day this week.
David D. Burns, M.D. & Rhonda Barovsky, Psy.D.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com. Today’s featured photo is courtesy of Nancy Mueller–www.nancymuellerphotography.com.
If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.
* * *
You may have missed the Calgary and South San Francisco intensives, but there will be one more awesome intensive this fall.
High-Speed Treatment of Depression
and Anxiety Disorders
A Four-Day TEAM-CBT Advanced Intensive
November 4 – 7, 2019
The Atlanta, Georgia Intensive
I also have two tremendous one-day workshop scheduled with my colleague, Dr. Jill Levitt, next year–
Coming up in 2020
High Speed Methods to Reduce Resistance and Boost Motivation
This is the most important, and least understood, topic in the behavioral sciences. Nearly all therapeutic failure results from the failure to address resistance. Therapists do not understand what causes resistance or how treat it effectively.
Come to this workshop and learn how to melt away resistance for incredibly high-speed recovery!
The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts
TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?
As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?
Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.
Hi! We’ve had tons of great questions from listeners like you. Here’s the first:
Question #1. TREATING ANXIETY WITHOUT MEDICATIONS
Hi Dr. Burns,
I would love to talk to you!!!
I have been going to a wonderful counselor for several years, and he is the one who recommended your book. My question is how can you overcome anxiety without taking medicine?
I have been on a very low dose medicine for years and would love to discontinue but when I try the anxiety seems to come back.
Thank you.
Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Thank you for your email! This is one of my favorite topics, since I’ve personally had at least 17 different anxiety disorders that I’ve had to overcome. That’s why I love treating anxiety. Whatever you’ve had, I can say, “I’ve had that too, and I know how it sucks! And I can put you on the road to recovery, too!”
Did you read When Panic Attacks, or one of the earlier books? The written exercises would be the way to go, I think.
You will find more than 40 methods in that book. Write back if you have questions after reading it. Focus on one specific moment when you are anxious, and do a Daily Mood Log, as illustrated in Chapter 3.
You can also listen to the free Feeling Good Podcasts on anxiety. Go to my website, FeelingGood.com, and click on the Podcast tab. There, you’ll find a list of all the podcasts, with links. In the right hand panel of every page, you’ll find the search function. You can type in “anxiety,” or “social anxiety,” and so forth, and all the relevant podcasts and blogs will pop right up. You can also sign up in that same right-hand panel of every page so you’ll receive all the new podcasts, along with the show notes.
In addition, withdrawal effects are pretty much inevitable when going off of benzodiazepines, if that is the type of medication you are taking. These are the drugs most often prescribed for anxiety, like Valium, Librium, Ativan, Xanax, and so forth. Typically, the withdrawal, which typically involves insomnia and increased anxiety, take several weeks to wear off.
Your medical doctor can guide you in this. I cannot advise you about medications in this forum, so make sure you check with your doctor!
David
Question #2. How can you interpret dreams?
Hello, Dr. Burns.
I am terrified that this may be the most boring question you have ever received, but, I’ll press on none the less.
I often experience very vivid dreams after listening to your podcasts. In fact, I recently dozed off after listening to one of your podcasts on procrastination (#75) and forgot to turn off my phone. In my dream I was in my childhood house and could hear you talking away in some far corner of the house and I was really getting quite annoyed and angry.
I really wanted to find you to tell you to shut up, but I couldn’t get the words out.
When I awoke, podcast #77 was playing, which seems to explain some of my unconscious hostility. I struggle with most of my relationships and don’t really want to deal with all the hard work I have to do to improve them.
So, there you have it!
Thanks for listening to me and all your Herculean efforts on behalf of all those in the struggle to grow.
Mike
Hi Mike,
I explain how dreams function, and give an example with my dream that I had a broken jaw!
Question #3. Are Negative Thoughts cyclical?
David, I have a question about our strong attraction or inclination to negative thoughts.
Are our psychological processes cyclical? People seem to recycle the same negative thoughts for years. Even if we produce a strong alternative thought or reattribution it may not be a default choice the next time. How can we make the alternative/ positive thoughts a conscious choice?
Thanks,
Rajesh
Hi Rajesh:
Negative Thoughts are not cyclical for the most part, but are an inherent part of our human nature. The podcast on fractal psychotherapy might be useful, since the same Negative Thoughts will tend to come back over and over throughout your life. And once you have learned how to combat those thoughts, you can use the same techniques to smash the thoughts whenever they pop back into your mind.
The written exercises I describe in my books, like the Daily Mood Log, are extremely helpful, even mandatory, in building new brain networks and strengthening them through repeated practice.
Bipolar manic-depressive illness is a little different, and it can be quick cyclical. (David will briefly explain this.)
Thanks Rajesh for yet another great question!
david
Question #4. I’m in sales. How do I combat my Negative Thoughts about each person I approach?
Hi David,
I have been struggling with anxiety for the last 18 months and recently faced up to the fact I have also been suffering from depression. And then I discovered your podcasts.
I have been spending a lot of time on the episodes I believe I can benefit from the most. I have found your solutions to be the most beneficial I have come across. Thank you for sharing your ideas and techniques with all of us!
A couple of questions—How would you advise constructing a work day to reduce anxiety? I work in sales and feel anxious before every phone call or visit I encounter, and the anxiety can be for reasons that seem to be related solely to each sales encounter on individual basis! And my anxiety will grow as the day goes on.
My second point would be, would there be a benefit in monitoring positive thoughts and feelings throughout the day, like happiness and hopefulness, rather than negative feelings?
Hi Rudi,
I’ve done a lot of sales work, including door-to-door sales when I was young. When I was 8 years old, I sold show tickets door to door. When I was a teenager, I sold Fiesta Chips, Cosmo’s Cock Roach Power, tick powder for dogs, and For Econoline Vans door to door in Phoenix. So, I feel a soft spot in my heart for everyone involved in sales! In fact, I’m still involved in sales! But these days I’m selling happiness, self-esteem, and intimacy.
I think it could be useful to do a written Daily Mood Log on the anxiety you feel before one of your calls. I think you will find there are certain themes that are common to each call, such as fears of rejection, disapproval, or failure. Once you’ve dealt with these fears successfully, I think they will help in all of your sales encounters. If you send me a partially filled out Daily Mood Log, perhaps Rhonda and I could provide more specific tips on how to crush your Negative Thoughts. If you listen to Rhonda’s work on performance anxiety, you may find it extremely helpful.
In addition, the Five Secrets of Effective Communication are the keys to successful sales. I used to think that you had to sell yourself, or your product, which is rarely true. I learned that the key is to form a warm relationship with your customers. David will explain what he learned from his mother, who sold women’s clothing part-time at a department store in Phoenix.
Thanks, Rudi, I hope to hear more.
Question #4. Why and how does exposure for anxiety work?
Hi Dr. Burns,
I am a big fan and believe that you are the greatest living psychologist of our time. I have seen you in person and hear your recent PESI presentation (link).
Quick question, when exposure is used to get rid of anxiety, what do you think is the mechanism in the brain? It works paradoxically, instead of strengthening a neuro-network it extinguishes it. Any ideas how.
Thanks for your time, and again I have learned so much from you in my over 30-year career, thank you for that also.
Sincerely, Dr. Mark
Hi Dr. Mark,
With your permission, will include this on an upcoming Ask David on my Feeling Good Podcast, but I think you discover a couple things during exposure:
When you stop running away and confront the monster, you discover that the monster has no teeth, so you go into enlightenment. This is the basis of Buddhism and the teachings in the Tibetan book of the dead.
During exposure, you also discover that after a while the anxiety just kind of wears out, dwindles, and disappears. The brain simply cannot continue creating anxiety for prolonged periods of time, especially when you are doing everything you can to make it as intense as possible.
You discover that you can, in fact, endure the anxiety and survive, and that you do not have to “escape” from the feeling of anxiety via avoidance.
One other thing that is important is that I treat anxiety with four models, not one: 1. The Motivational Model; 2. The Hidden Emotion model; 3. The Exposure Model; and 4. The Cognitive Model. All play vitally important and unique roles in the treatment of anxiety. Exposure alone is NOT a treatment for anxiety, just one tool among many that can be helpful, and often incredibly helpful, as you’ll see in the upcoming podcast on the treatment of Sara, a woman struggling with severe OCD for more than 20 years.
Great question! Hope to catch you in one of my upcoming in-person / online workshops!
Thanks, David
Mark’s reply and a brief final question
Hi Dr. Burns,
Yes, of course you have my permission to use my question! Also, I do understand your impressive approach to treatment (not just exposure), and again it is genius. I also love that you see the connection between Buddhism and cognitive restructuring, where as Dr. Beck only went as far back as Socrates and the Greek Stoic philosophers. I don’t know if you ever read the Dhammapada (best translation I found is Eknath Easwaran) as it clearly states that our life is shaped by our mind, and that our feelings follow our thoughts just like a cart follows the ox that pulls it.
Thanks again! Will you be coming to the East coast again soon?
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com. Today’s featured photo is courtesy of Nancy Mueller–www.nancymuellerphotography.com.
If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.
* * *
You may have missed the Calgary and South San Francisco intensives, but there will be one more awesome intensive this fall.
High-Speed Treatment of Depression
and Anxiety Disorders
A Four-Day TEAM-CBT Advanced Intensive
November 4 – 7, 2019
The Atlanta, Georgia Intensive
I also have two tremendous one-day workshop scheduled with my colleague, Dr. Jill Levitt, next year–
Coming up in 2020
High Speed Methods to Reduce Resistance and Boost Motivation
This is the most important, and least understood, topic in the behavioral sciences. Nearly all therapeutic failure results from the failure to address resistance. Therapists do not understand what causes resistance or how treat it effectively.
Come to this workshop and learn how to melt away resistance for incredibly high-speed recovery!
The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts
TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?
As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?
Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.
High-Speed Treatment of Depression and Anxiety Disorders
The Incredible Atlanta Intensive Is Coming Soon—November 4 – 7, 2019!
With David D. Burns, MD
Join me in Atlanta and learn how TEAM-CBT can produce extremely rapid and lasting changes for your clients—and for you! You will practice and master powerful new therapy techniques that will boost your effectiveness in the treatment of depression and all of the anxiety disorders.
This workshop will be experiential. You will have the chance to practice many innovative techniques in small groups and get immediate feedback from me and my colleagues so you can refine your skills. You’ll also have the chance to work on your own feelings of insecurity and self-doubt so you can leave this workshop on a high, with renewed confidence and excitement about your clinical work.
This dynamic workshop offers:
Amazing TEAM-CBT techniques that will transform your approach to therapy.
Innovativeresistance-busting techniques to boost patient motivation and eliminate “yes-butting.”
Live demonstrations and video clips from actual therapy sessions.
Powerful Relapse Prevention Training for lasting results.
Lots of fun and the chance to get some emotional refueling!
Tons of CE credit–33 hours!
There will be two dynamic and inspiring evening sessions in addition to the four day sessions. You’ll work extremely hard and you’ll be exhausted at the end, but you’ll be feeling greater joy and happiness, with a new vision for life and clinical work.
The intensives are almost always the best workshops of the year, by far. I hope you can join us in Atlanta! But move fast if you’re interested, since the date is just around the corner!
This will be my first east coast intensive in more than 20 years! If YOU can join me, it will be over the top!
This workshop has been approved for Levels 1 through 3 TEAM-CBT Certification and is suitable for novice as well as highly experienced therapists and coaches. Graduate students are also welcome.
The intervention on anxiety was so inspiring. Very powerful . . . a healing and amazing experience!
I loved the Stage Fright demonstration. The stage was full of such beautiful people. I love your spontaneity, David, normalizing it with your nightmarish experience. Yeah! Celebrate!
Such a safe environment. Vicarious healing. Awesome!
Superb at all levels. Dr. Burns’ brilliance shines through even in the difficult moments.
The unplanned and spontaneous anxiety (fear of public speaking) group was a real WOW!
It was beautiful!
It was Fantastic to see all the people with public speaking anxiety get up on stage. Fantastic! They looked at the fear monster in the face and realized it has no teeth!!
The Externalization of Voices role-play was awesome.
Love the sensibility of joyous failure!
Fantastic training!
Amazing!
David’s integration of philosophy and spirituality into the TEAM-CBT model—absolutely brilliant! An amazing experience!
Today was very emotional for me. I didn’t have the courage to get up on stage and speak about my public speaking anxiety, but it was a wonder to watch the other participants share their own struggles. It brought tears to my eyes. Wonderful!
During the practice with the Externalization of Voices, I experienced a shift that I did not think would be possible.
Demos, role-plays. Helpers were fantastic, supportive. I learned a lot. Lots of tears. Facing my demons. Thank you, Dr. Burns!
I think these ideas are light years better than most things that typically happen in therapy! Very motivating!
We saw healing happen before our very eyes!
Wow, fabulous! To go through the whole exercise was rewarding. The helpers were awesome. Thank you, Dr. Burns, for your awesomeness and helpful, brilliant mind.
WOW WOW WOW! No words needed. AMAZING! Thank you for this experience!
Thrilling!
Superb!! Thank you, Dr. Burns!
Our helper was awesome. Loved the night session! A+!
Today we are joined by a woman named Sara, who will be featured in one of the chapters from my new book, Feeling Great.
Rhonda begins today’s podcast by reading two heart-warming endorsements from podcast fans. Then we did a brief overview of OCD. OCD consists of two components, obsessions and compulsions. The obsessions are intrusive, anxiety provoking thoughts, like “what if I forgot to turn off the burners on the stove.” Compulsions are rituals that temporarily relieve the anxiety, such as going back into the kitchen repeatedly to make sure that the burners really are turned off. This problem can become more and more severe until the obsessive thoughts and compulsive rituals consume massive amounts of the patient’s time and become crippling.
You are probably aware that OCD plagued the life of the billionaire playboy, Howard Hughes, featured in the recent film, “The Aviator.” During the last years of his life, he became totally consumed by concerns about germs, and ended up isolated in the penthouse suite at the top of a hotel in Las Vegas. According to a “psychological autopsy” (https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug05/hughes) published by the American Psychological Association, Hughes lay naked in bed in darkened hotel rooms in what he considered a germ-free zone. He even wore tissue boxes on his feet to protect them, and burned his clothing if someone near him became ill.
Sara, today’s guest, was a victim of the same type of OCD. She describes how her intense fears of germs and contamination came on more than 20 years ago, and the devastating impact of the OCD on her as well as her relationships with friends and family. She also describes her shame about her rituals of constantly washing her hands and desperately trying to avoid contamination.
Sara also describes, in vivid detail, her remarkable and inspiring five minute “cure” one evening at David’s Tuesday evening training group at Stanford earlier this year. She had courageously volunteered to be the patient so David could to demonstrate TEAM-CBT with a problem generally thought to be exceptionally challenging and refractory. And although Sara’s dramatic and mind-blowing recovery only took about five minutes, the treatment required a lifetime of courage!
Fortunately, one of my students had his cell phone in hand, and made a brief video of the last phase of her treatment at the Tuesday group, which involved putting her hands into a slimy, dirty garbage can right outside the front door of our Behavioral Sciences Building at Stanford and then rubbing her fingers on her face. Check it out!
And yes, the effects DID last! Her treatment was many months ago, and she’s been a totally changed person!
Following the podcast, Rhonda and I got two beautiful emails from Sara:
Wow! What a beautiful day! Thank you, Rhonda and David for the amazing opportunity to share my story! I feel very selfish but I enjoyed every minute of it. You both made me feel so comfortable and welcome. You two are so incredibly AWESOME! You make a superb team! 🙂
And here is the second wonderful email:
David, I hope you are feeling better and that you recover from your cold soon, very soon.
I wanted to share an afterthought I had a couple of days after we recorded the podcast. I wish I had thought about it before the podcast because this was so much part of my OCD.
Anyway, for years (many years) I bought sanitized hand wipes and carried them in my purse, car, briefcase, you name it—I had hand wipes everywhere. I was known for having wipes with me all the time.
Not long after the magical treatment of my OCD, I was at the grocery store and proceeded to add three packets of sanitized hand wipes to my basket and I burst into laughter, even though I was by myself! I, then, put them back on the shelf, as I told myself, “I don’t need these anymore!”
Since then, I no longer carry them NOR NEED THEM!
Funny enough, I have been approached on different occasions by family members and friends saying something like, “You always have wipes, can we have one, please?” I have to say, “Sorry, I don’t carry wipes anymore since I’ve been cured!”
What a wonderful feeling that is—not to feel dependent nor a slave to the sink and hand wipes. Not to mention, all the money I am saving by not buying wipes!!!
Anyway, I thought I should share that with you and I’m sad I didn’t remember it until after the recording of the podcast.
Once again, thank you both for the amazing recording, all your support, and all you do for our Tuesday training group and humanity in general!
With Immense Gratitude,
Sara
Sara Shane is a certified TEAM-CBT therapist practicing in the central valley of California (Stockton). She is multi-lingual and offers intensives—extended, single-session treatment of depression and all of the anxiety disorders. And, here’s something fantastic—although Sara is a superb therapist, her fees are modest, thus bucking the current trend of charging outrageous fees for psychotherapy in California. This is something I really admire and appreciate!
If you would like to contact Sara, you can reach her at: 209-476-8867.
David and Rhonda
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com. She is a Certified TEAM-CBT therapist and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. She also does forensic work in family court, but finds TEAM-CBT to be way more rewarding!
If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.
* * *
You may have missed the summer intensives, but there will be one more awesome intensive in November.
High-Speed Treatment of Depression and Anxiety Disorders
A Four-Day TEAM-CBT Advanced Intensive
November 4 – 7, 2019 The Atlanta, Georgia Intensive
I just received an awesome article on antidepressants that my esteemed colleague, Professor Mark Noble, from the University of Rochester, sent to me. The authors seem to conclude that these drugs should not be prescribed for individuals struggling with depression! Although I have been leaning more and more strongly in this direction for decades, it is refreshing to see that some of the world’s top scientists have come to the same conclusion.
Check it out! Troubling, for sure, but super-important.
If you are interested in learning some powerful, drug-free treatment methods for depression and all of the anxiety disorders, my November 3 – 7 Atlanta intensive may be of interest to you. The intensives are the best psychotherapy training that I offer, and are tremendous opportunities for personal healing as well!
The intensive will feature powerful new TEAM-CBT techniques presented in a step-by-step way, with opportunities for small group practice with immediate feedback and mentoring from me and a number of expert helpers, as well as dramatic videos and live demonstrations. You will work super hard, with two evening sessions in addition to the four day sessions, and you will emerge exhausted, but hopefully filled with joy, many new skills and insights, and a much deeper understanding of the sudden, dramatic and lasting changes that can happen in effective treatment–even WITHOUT drugs or lengthy treatment.
I know you’ll learn a lot and laugh a lot, too, and I have no doubt we’ll shed some tears together, too. Many people have felt the intensives are among the most rewarding training experiences they’ve experienced. So I hope YOU can join us in Atlanta!
This will be my first East Coast Intensive in more than 25 years. l don’t travel to the east coast for teaching very often any more, as I just turned 77. But I’ve still got tons of energy and I still LOVE teaching, so I hope you can join us! David (AKA the elderly one)
* * *
Participant Feedback from this year’s San Francisco Summer Intensive. I will be presenting the same program in Atlanta.
Awesome
The intervention on anxiety was so inspiring. Very powerful . . . a healing and amazing experience!
I loved the Stage Fright demonstration. The stage was full of such beautiful people. I love your spontaneity, David, normalizing it with your nightmarish experience. Yeah! Celebrate!
Such a safe environment. Vicarious healing. Awesome!
Superb at all levels. Dr. Burns’ brilliance shines through even in the difficult moments.
The unplanned and spontaneous anxiety (fear of public speaking) group was a real WOW!
It was beautiful!
It was Fantastic to see all the people with public speaking anxiety get up on stage. Fantastic! They looked at the fear monster in the face and realized it has no teeth!!
The Externalization of Voices role-play was awesome.
Love the sensibility of joyous failure!
Fantastic training!
Amazing!
David’s integration of philosophy and spirituality into the TEAM-CBT model—absolutely brilliant! An amazing experience!
Today was very emotional for me. I didn’t have the courage to get up on stage and speak about my public speaking anxiety, but it was a wonder to watch the other participants share their own struggles. It brought tears to my eyes. Wonderful!
During the practice with the Externalization of Voices, I experienced a shift that I did not think would be possible.
Demos, role-plays. Helpers were fantastic, supportive. I learned a lot. Lots of tears. Facing my demons. Thank you, Dr. Burns!
I think these ideas are light years better than most things that typically happen in therapy! Very motivating!
We saw healing happen before our very eyes!
Wow, fabulous! To go through the whole exercise was rewarding. The helpers were awesome. Thank you, Dr. Burns, for your awesomeness and helpful, brilliant mind.
WOW WOW WOW! No words needed. AMAZING! Thank you for this experience!
Thrilling!
Superb!! Thank you, Dr. Burns!
Our helper was awesome. Loved the night session! A+!
