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180: Feeling Great: The Book and the App!

180: Feeling Great: The Book and the App!

Rhonda and David are joined today by Jeremy Karmel, who is working with David on a new Feeling Great app.

Rhonda begins by reading several amazing emails from fans whose lives have been changed by the podcasts as well as David’s books, including Jessica, Tim, and Mike. Thank you, everyone, for such kind and thoughtful comments!

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This great photo of Rhonda is courtesy of Nancy Mueller, a local photographer who kindly took some pics at my home in Los Altos, California.

David describes his upcoming book, Feeling Great, which will be released in September of 2020. It will move well beyond his first book, Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, all will incorporate all of the latest hi-speed treatment techniques in TEAM-CBT (aka “Feeling Great Therapy.”) David describes his excitement about the team he is working with to publish his latest book, including Linda Jackson at PESI (the publishing company), and Jenessa Jackson, his editor.

Jeremy describes why he approached David to develop a Feeling Great app. As a Stanford student, he was depressed and had to drop out of school for semester. Antidepressants and talk therapy had done nothing for him, so he was feeling hopeless.

Then Jeremy discovered one of Dr. Burns’ students, Dr. Matthew May, and recovered in just two weeks, which was mind-blowing. Matt was one of the first practitioners in the world to use the new TEAM-CBT, Jeremy felt a tremendous drive to make these powerful new techniques available to people around the world.

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Jeremy Karmel

David and Rhonda, of course, share this goal! In fact, Rhonda has recently gone to Mexico City as well as India to support the sudden and strong emergence of TEAM-CBT in those countries.

Rhonda asks Jeremy many questions about the amazing recovery he experienced in his work with Dr. May, and how he’s been doing since. Then Rhonda, Jeremy, and David address a number of intriguing questions about the new app. For example, there is tremendous evidence from research that David’s first book, Feeling Good, has significant antidepressant effects. In fact, many published studies have confirmed that more than 50% of depressed individuals will recover or improve dramatically within four weeks if you just give them a copy of the book.

Is it possible that an app that incorporates all the great methods in Feeling Good, plus all the new techniques in TEAM-CBT, could be even more effective? And if so, would this mean that an electronic app could even outperform human therapists as well as antidepressant medications?

David says that this has been his dream for more than 40 years, and he thinks this is a definite possibility. Jeremy agrees, since the app, now in creation, has the potential to be far more powerful and systematic than reading a book or even going to a therapist.

Rhonda asks: “Are you trying to put human therapists out of business?”

David believes that there will always be a place for human therapists, since the person to person support and connection is invaluable and desperately needed.

However, the Feeling Great app can actually be a friend of human therapists, just as his book, Feeling Good, has been, working hand in hand with therapists helping to accelerate the recovery of their patients.

In addition, the app can bring rapid help and relief to millions of people worldwide who cannot afford therapy, and those who simply cannot find effective therapy. David emphasizes the goal of having an entirely free version of the app for people without resources.

Rhonda asks: “Will you be doing research as well as self-help “treatment” with the new app?”

The answer to that is absolutely, yes, and the implications for incredible research into the causes and treatments for depression, anxiety and relationship problems are immense, especially if thousands or even tens of thousands of individuals use the Feeling Great app.

For example, David has developed many psychological assessment instruments to help therapists and patients alike, but the costs and time required to develop and validate even a single short test can be substantial. In contrast, one might get more than enough data to evaluate a new instrument in just one day, which is mind-boggling.

In addition, every time someone uses the app, we will learn more and more about what works, and what does not. This type of analysis is vitally important, but practically impossible, or at the very least arduous and confusing, when working with human therapists, due to the complexity of what’s happening, and the intense bias of therapists and researchers alike. The computer, by way of contrast, does not mind being wrong and moving in different and more promising directions!

Rhonda, Jeremy and David will let all of you know when a beta version of the new app, is available, and hopes that many of you will try it out and let us know what you think! David will also let you know when pre-ordering for his new book, Feeling Great will be available as well!

David and Rhonda

References on Homework Compliance and Motivation

Burns, D. D., Shaw, B. F., & Crocker, W. (1987). Thinking styles and coping strategies of depressed women: An empirical investigation. Behavior Research and Therapy, 25(3): 223 – 225.

Burns, D. D., & Nolen-Hoeksema, S. (1991). Coping styles, homework compliance and the effectiveness of cognitive – behavioral therapy. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 59(2): 305 – 311.

Burns, D. D., & Nolen-Hoeksema, S. (1992). Therapeutic empathy and recovery from depression in cognitive – behavioral therapy: a structural equation model. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 60(3): 441 – 449.

Burns, D. D., & Spangler, D. (2000). Does psychotherapy homework lead to changes in depression in cognitive behavioral therapy? Or does clinical improvement lead to homework compliance? Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 68(1): 46 – 59.

Burns, D. D., & Spangler, D. (2001). Can We Confirm Our Theories? Can We Measure Causal Effects? A Reply to Kazantzis et al. (2001). Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 69(6), 1084-1086.

Burns, D., Westra, H., Trockel, M., & Fisher, A. (2012) Motivation and Changes in Depression. Cognitive Therapy and Research DOI 10.1007/s10608-012-9458-3 Published online 22 April 2012.

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You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com. She is a Certified TEAM-CBT therapist and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. She also does forensic work in family court, but finds TEAM-CBT to be way more rewarding!

If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.

 

Coming up in 2020

The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts

TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?

As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?

Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.

This workshop will be live-streamed (and in person in Palo Alto, CA) so you can join from anywhere in the world! There will be many expert online helpers to assist you with the small-group exercises.

With Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt

May 17, 2020 | 7 CE hours. $135

Learn More & Register

 

167: Feeling Great: Professor Mark Noble on TEAM-CBT and the Brain

167: Feeling Great: Professor Mark Noble on TEAM-CBT and the Brain

Mark Noble (002)

Professor Mark Noble was our special guest on the one hundredth Feeling Good Podcast. In that podcast, he described the effects of TEAM-CBT on the human brain. Many listeners were enthralled by Dr. Noble’s revolutionary ideas!

Today, Dr. Noble returns to discuss his illuminating ideas, and prevents an overview of his chapter entitled, “TEAM CBT and the Art of Micro-Neurosurgery: A Brain User’s Guide to Feeling Great,” which will appear in David’s new book, Feeling Great, which will be released by PESI in 2020.

Rhonda begins the podcast by asking how Dr. Noble met Dr. Burns. What brought the two of you together?

Dr. Noble explains that he read about David’s work on drug-free treatments for depression in the October, 2013 issue of Stanford Magazine entitled Mind Over Misery, This article became the most-read article in the history of the Stanford Magazine.  Dr. Noble was particularly interested in drug-free treatments for depression because of some alarming research emerging in his laboratory on the central nervous system impact of some popular antidepressants on lysosomes in the brain.

So, Dr. Noble made a trip to California so he could visit David’s Tuesday training group at Stanford and participate in one of David’s famous Sunday hikes. This was so much fun, and so intellectually rewarding, that he become an irregular regular at the Tuesday groups and Sunday hikes! Since that time, there have been many Sunday hikes and many Tuesday groups in the emerging friendship and professional collaboration between David and Dr. Noble.

David describes some of the resistance he runs into from mental health professionals who cannot believe that the rapid recoveries David sees in TEAM-CBT can be real. Most therapists were trained to believe that depression develops slowly, over many years, and that effective treatment must also be very slow, often requiring many years, or even more than a decade of weekly sessions. But Dr. Noble argues that the amazingly rapid changes David routinely sees in TEAM-CBT are actually highly consistent with the latest neuroscience understanding of how the human brain works.

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David and Dr. Noble on a Sunday hike

In fact, Dr. Noble presents the amazing idea that if you had to invent a form of psychotherapy that was specifically developed to capitalize on how the brain works, you would come up with something very much like TEAM-CBT.

Dr. Noble discusses neuroscience in simple, everyday terms that anyone can understand. Even me (david)! Dr. Noble teaches in a kind of clear, accessible way of communicating that I (david) admire greatly. I have seen this in all of the teachers that I’ve admired the most in college, medical school and beyond.

Dr. Noble explains that if you want to change the way you think, feel, and behave, you have to change certain specific networks in your brain. That’s because networks of nerves are the biological equivalents of thoughts.

But how do you do that? How can you change the networks in your brain that cause you to feel depressed, anxious, and inadequate? It’s through two basic concepts of neuroscience called FTWT and WTFT! In Dr. Burns’ new book, Dr. Noble writes:

“One of the most famous concepts in the science of learning is called, “What Fires Together Wires Together” (FTWT). Nerve cells that frequently interact with each other become functionally connected, and the more they fire together, the stronger the connections become. This is how new networks are formed and how existing networks become stronger.

“In addition, nerve cells that are Wired Together tend to Fire Together (WTFT). WTFT. This idea explains why once you’ve learned something it gets easier to repeat it every time you do it.”

Dr. Noble also views TEAM-CBT as a kind of micro-neurosurgery, because you replace highly selected negative brain circuits that send distorted signals, such as “I’m not good enough,” or “I’ll never recover,” with new circuits that are far more accurate and positive.

Dr. Noble also explains why Dr. Burns’ concept of “Fractal Psychotherapy” is so complimentary to our understanding of the human brain, as are the other components of TEAM-CBT, including T = Testing, E = Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance, and M = Methods.

 

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David and Dr. Noble following a Sunday hike, just before the dim sum feast with the hiking group at the Joy Luck Palace in Cupertino, California, Notice the slightly bulging but happy stomachs from both doctors!

Dr. Noble also explains why conventional therapy–where the patient comes in week after week to vent about his / her problems–may actually make the patient worse. This is because the neurons that Fire Together every week, actually Wire Together. So, in simple neuroscience terms, conventional therapy may actually lead patients in the wrong direction, by strengthening the negative circuits in the brain.

You will love this down-to-earth discussion of TEAM-CBT and the human brain!

David D. Burns, M.D. & Rhonda Barovsky, Psy.D.

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You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com. Today’s featured photo is courtesy of Nancy Mueller–www.nancymuellerphotography.com.

If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here.

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I have two tremendous one-day workshop scheduled with my esteemed colleague, Dr. Jill Levitt, next year–

Workshops in 2020

High Speed Methods to Reduce Resistance
and Boost Motivation

This is the most important, and least understood, topic in psychotherapy. Nearly all therapeutic failure results from the failure to address resistance effectively. Therapists do not understand what causes resistance or how treat resistant and oppositional patients who “yes-but” you or fail to follow through on homework assignments.

Come to this workshop and learn how to melt away resistance for incredibly high-speed recovery!

You can join this workshop in person or online (live streaming) from anywhere in the world!

With Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt

Feb 9. 2020 |  7 CE hours. $135

Learn More & Register

 

The Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit:
How to Crush Negative Thoughts

TEAM-CBT includes more than 100 powerful techniques to change the distorted thoughts that trigger negative emotions. But what techniques should I select for my patient who feels depressed, anxious, or angry?

As you know, in my book, Feeling Good, I listed the ten most common cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Should Statements, Emotional Reasoning, and more, and you probably use that list all the time in your clinical work. But do you know which techniques work the best for each distortion?

Come to this workshop and find out! You’ll learn with tons of cool techniques you can use every day to boost your clinical effectiveness.

You can join this workshop in person or online (live streaming) from anywhere in the world!

With Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt

May 17, 2020 | 7 CE hours. $135

Learn More & Register

 

Coming this summer!

The Annual South San Francisco Intensive!

August 10 – 13, 2020

It’s Going to Be Awesome!

Videos, Live Demonstrations

Small Group Practice with Personal Feedback and Mentoring,

and Chances for Personal Work and Healing

Ultra-Rapid TEAM-CBT for Depression and Anxiety Disorders

Learn More and Register

148: Ask David: What’s in your new book? What’s a nervous breakdown? How fast is fast? And more!

148: Ask David: What’s in your new book? What’s a nervous breakdown? How fast is fast? And more!

How would you overcome the fear of aging?

Can you use TEAM for sports psychology?

Describe your typical day, David–
do you ever get down or anxious?

Hi listeners,

Thanks for your many and awesome questions. I love to answer them! And there will be more to come in future podcasts. Your questions are GREAT! 

  1. Vipul: Tell us about your new book, Feeling Great. How will it be different from Feeling Good? And can people with schizoaffective disorder be helped? (story with Stirling Moorey)
  2. Guy: What’s a nervous breakdown?
  3. Rob: How would you treat a field goal kicker who’s afraid of missing the winning field goal? Would you use positive visualizations?
  4. Michael: How would you treat someone with the fear of aging? I turn 60 in a few months, and have been experiencing anxiety around not be able to do some of the things I love as I age.
  5. Hidem: How fast is fast? I notice your frequent use of the term “High Speed Recovery” (and even Warp Speed) when describing the benefits of TEAM CBT. How rapidly does the average patient recover?
  6. Brittany: I had an idea that I think would benefit a lot of us. I’d like you to do a podcast on a week or a day in your life. The ups & downs of your moods, triggers, etc., & most importantly how you deal with them. Do you write out your own Negative Thoughts a Daily Mood Log?

Thank you for all of your great questions, comments, and testimonials! Rhonda and I really appreciate that!  David and Rhonda

PS Here’s a great question we did not get to today. We’ll do it in a future Ask David, as it’s really important. 

  1. Rubens: What can you do when you can’t identify your negative thoughts? I get anxious, but don’t seem to have any negative thoughts. Is it really true that our feelings always result from negative thoughts?

 

Subscribe

You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky practices in Walnut Creek, California, and can be reached at rbarovsky@aol.com.

If you like our jingle music and would like to support the composer Brett Van Donsel, you may download it here

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There will be three awesome intensives
for you this summer and fall!

July 15 – 18, 2019
Calgary, Canada four-day intensive
Sponsored by Jack Hirose & Assoc.

 

July 29 – August 1, 2019
South San Francisco four-day intensive
Sponsored by Praxis

 

November 4 – 7, 2019
Atlanta, Georgia four-day intensive
Sponsored by Praxis