Three little words that will make your life miserable are “shoulds,” “wants,” and “needs,” says Dr. Fabrice Nye, the father / creator of the Feeling Good Podcast several years ago.
But for the purpose of this episode, we’ll add a fourth word, “Musts,” which was popularized by Dr. Albert Ellis, who referred to it as “Musterbation.”
Fabrice says that,
“Shoulds are a trap. . . . There’s no such thing as a should, except for the laws of nature. For example, if I drop my pen, it “should” fall to the floor because of the effects of gravity. And sure enough, it does!
“But when I say, ‘I should get an A on my upcoming exam,’ i may just be setting myself up for frustration. That’s because there’s no laws of the universe saying that people will always get As on their exams.
“Similarly, if I say it SHOULDN’T be raining today, I’m involved in fiction, not reality. The clouds don’t obey our whims, they are just obeying the laws that govern the weather.”
Fabrice explained that when you apply shoulds to some past event, telling yourself that your shouldn’t have made some mistake, you just make yourself guilty because it sounds like you’re scolding yourself. Again, you’re living in some fictitious reality where things are always the way you want them to be, because it’s impossible to change the past
Fabrice reminded us that the Anglo-Saxon origin of the word, “should,” is “scolde.” So when you “should” on yourself, you’re actually scolding yourself.
Fabrice also explained that the concept of “needs” can also get us into emotional hot water, since we sometimes tell us that we “need” things that we may want but don’t really “need.” So, if you tell yourself that someone “needs” to do something for you, you are simply applying pressure to the situation. For example, you might want or prefer for the person to be on time for appointments or planned activities, but you don’t “need” them to be on time.
Similarly, you might want to find someone to love, or someone to love you, but you don’t “need” love, according to Fabrice. . . . and David agrees! It has been shown in research studies that infants and young children need love to grow and develop in a healthy way, but love is not an adult human need.
According to the Buddhists, “needs” are not real. They’re just cravings, or intense desires that we’ve elevated to some godly state.
Of course, there ARE things that we really do “need.” For example, we “need” to breathe to stay alive, and we “need” to have gas in the car if we want to drive to San Francisco. Those things are needed to fulfill a particular goal. So the key to an actual need is adding the phrase, “…in order to…”
Fabrice also described some “want” traps. For example, you may sit at your computer cruising the internet or playing digital games, all the while telling yourself “I really want to get to work on my paper,” or taxes, or whatever. But in point of fact, you DON’T want to get to work on the thing you’re putting off. You WANT to be doing exactly what you are doing.
Fabrice explains that we “trick ourselves into thinking we want something (like doing our taxes) when we really want to be doing something else (watching TV, playing computer games.) So, once again, we are telling ourselves stories that don’t map onto reality.”
Our real “wants” are the result of an unconscious cost-benefit analysis we make in our head, where the choice that comes out on top is our real want. It’s only when I really start doing my taxes that I’ll know this is what I want to be doing (probably because the urgency of the matter made the cost-benefit analysis tip in that direction).
David was trying to see if this concept of “wants” can be helpful in therapy but had trouble seeing how this might help someone who’s procrastinating. Fabrice explained it like this: First, we need to realize that we are doing what we want in the moment; so, it’s a choice. Next, we can make our cost-benefit analysis conscious and see that we’re only considering short-term factors (e.g., it’s a lot more comfortable right now to be watching TV than doing taxes). Finally, we can develop some empathy for our future self (the one who will be pulling an all-nighter three weeks from now, or who will have to pay late fees) to reevaluate our cost-benefit analysis with more complete data.
Fabrice also explained that procrastination can sometimes be difficult to treat because it’s an addiction.
Rhonda also commented on the use of these concepts in therapy.
Fabrice concluded the podcast by saying that he watches out for those three little words in his own thinking: “should, need, or want.”
Thanks for listening today.
Fabrice, Rhonda, and David
Fabrice can be contacted at: fabrice@life.net
Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. You can reach her at rhonda@feelinggreattherapycenter.com.
This is the cover of my new book, Feeling Great.
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Thank you for this podcast which had an interesting subject and pace too, with some little moments of silence, that I appreciated.
I have one question regarding the want. You discussed that what we really want can be seen through our actions, and I agree with that. But it seems to me that something important is missing: the fear. Indeed, it is not always the case that we only do what we want, we also do things because we are afraid of doing differently. For instance, someone might be single for a while, so we might conclude that this person want to be single. What if their was some (hidden) fear(s) behind this situation ? And I guess there is also the factor of meeting someone who happens at its own timing. What do you think of that ? Does it make sense ?
Also, some interrogation about the translation ? Can’t we simply translate “I should” with “Je devrais”, “I should have” with “J’aurais dû”, “I want” with “Je veux”, and “I need” with “J’ai besoin de” ?
Thanks, Alissa. I will forward your thoughtful comments to Rhonda and Fabrice. I agree with you that motivations are multiple and complex, and that simple explanations of why we do or don’t do certain things will often fall short because of their simplicity. Perhaps, to put things in your terms, we might ask WHY we sometimes avoid doing something we tell ourselves we “want” to do. Fear, as you say, can get in the way, as well as anger, feelings of inadequacy or depression, and more. One thing we’ve learned in my research on data from the Feeling Good App is that people usually have a whole range of many different kinds of negative feelings at the same time. Best, david
“We must remember that we are not made of one block. We have both approach tendencies and avoidance tendencies within ourselves. In the example given by Aissa, if I am single and I want a relationship, but I am not doing anything to find one because I am afraid of, say, being rejected, I am doing an internal cost-benefit analysis of the benefits of having a relationship versus the discomfort of potential rejection. If I’m doing nothing, it means that I have decided (albeit unconsciously) that the benefits are not worth the discomfort. So, what I REALLY want is the comfort of doing nothing. and it’s not until the DIScomfort of being alone outweighs the discomfort of fearing rejection that I will set myself in motion. At that time, I will know that what I WANT is to find a relationship because I will see myself doing something about it.
“With regards to the French translations. Of course, those are literal translations of “I should…”, “I want…” and “I need…” But for instance, the phrase “je devrais” does not have the same imperative tone as “I should.” In French, it sounds more like a suggestion, more like “Wouldn’t it be nice if I…” because of the conditional mood. French does not have the same crispness as English for those notions.”
Thank you very much David and Fabrice for your answers, that both make sense to me.
It’s true that there are many possible “negative” feelings, and about the example, that the actions show what we really want, depending on what make us feel more uncomfortable. I guess it might be a mix of both ideas. Because if one feels depressed, they might stay more into the discomfort, because of the depression, instead of wanting the discomfort. Or do they really want to be depressed ? (Open question.)
Actually it is not easy, it seems very intricated. Anyway, it’s cool to be aware of both, and action is an antidote to depression, so for this example, I completely agree that to set oneself in motion is a very good idea !
Regarding the translation, it seems that I understood “should” differently. Or maybe there are different nuances to this word, sometimes more like a “have to”, other times perhaps still a conditional. It’s good also to be aware of those nuances, to understand it more.
Kind regards
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Dr. Burns
on September 29, 2023 at 12:29 pm
Thanks for keeping the dialogue alive, Alissa! The TEAM-CBT that I have developed focuses in part on helping people overcome their
“stuckness,” using paradoxical techniques like Positive Reframing, and more. These are covered in many of the podcasts, including some of the earliest podcasts that focus on the 8 most common types of therapeutic “resistance.” Best, david
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Sanjay Gulati
on September 29, 2023 at 12:58 am
Hello David, Rhonda, and Fabrice,
It was really nice to meet Fabrice after a long gap.
The topic Fabrice has started is very special of
Should , Want and Need.
I have heard about this topic in bits and pieces by you in many podcasts and also in your set of 4 podcast of self deaths . I kept thinking a lot about this beautiful concept of Want versus Need. And if we are able to learn technique to balance between Want & Need ,our lives will become much more stress-free and happy .
Buddhist teachings say that the cause of every problem is Desire so they want us to achieve a state with zero desires, which as per them is Nirvana.
Also the Holy book of Hinduism Geeta says further that if the purpose of our desires are to fulfill a duty or to help someone, only in these two cases desires are good and will bring happiness to the person. So desire to eat a Mango will not fall in any of the two😄
But the penultimate question is that if we don’t have desires, life will be very dull and boring. As you had mentioned in podcast number 348 with Dr. Tom Gedman that unless one is in a very very positive state( which is rare like Buddha himself was) then only you can remain in a state of zero feeling otherwise you are bound to fall down and will lead to a very fast relapse .
I also agree that zero feelings or Zero desires state will ultimately lead people into depression therefore I feel the best way is to do positive-reframing of Need and dial it down to Want.So that we get the advantages of desires and leave the disadvantages of it .
As you have mentioned a number of times that FEELING GOOD APP is a very high priority for you but you try to keep it as your “want” and try not to enter this desire in the NEED zone.
Balancing desires on the border between Need and Want is quite challenging
I request that please do a podcast for discussing as how to keep desires in check till want and if possible please develop a self-assessment questionnaire in a podcast with Mark May and Rhonda ,sounds i feel this is a valuable topic for exploration. It can provide listeners with tools and insights to strike a balance between fulfilling their desires for happiness and well-being without becoming enslaved by them.
I hope my message is clear and I am eagerly looking forward to the discussions amongst yourself
Hello David, Rhonda, and Fabrice,
Thank you for this podcast which had an interesting subject and pace too, with some little moments of silence, that I appreciated.
I have one question regarding the want. You discussed that what we really want can be seen through our actions, and I agree with that. But it seems to me that something important is missing: the fear. Indeed, it is not always the case that we only do what we want, we also do things because we are afraid of doing differently. For instance, someone might be single for a while, so we might conclude that this person want to be single. What if their was some (hidden) fear(s) behind this situation ? And I guess there is also the factor of meeting someone who happens at its own timing. What do you think of that ? Does it make sense ?
Also, some interrogation about the translation ? Can’t we simply translate “I should” with “Je devrais”, “I should have” with “J’aurais dû”, “I want” with “Je veux”, and “I need” with “J’ai besoin de” ?
Kind regards
Thanks, Alissa. I will forward your thoughtful comments to Rhonda and Fabrice. I agree with you that motivations are multiple and complex, and that simple explanations of why we do or don’t do certain things will often fall short because of their simplicity. Perhaps, to put things in your terms, we might ask WHY we sometimes avoid doing something we tell ourselves we “want” to do. Fear, as you say, can get in the way, as well as anger, feelings of inadequacy or depression, and more. One thing we’ve learned in my research on data from the Feeling Good App is that people usually have a whole range of many different kinds of negative feelings at the same time. Best, david
Fabrice asked me to post this response to Alissa:
“We must remember that we are not made of one block. We have both approach tendencies and avoidance tendencies within ourselves. In the example given by Aissa, if I am single and I want a relationship, but I am not doing anything to find one because I am afraid of, say, being rejected, I am doing an internal cost-benefit analysis of the benefits of having a relationship versus the discomfort of potential rejection. If I’m doing nothing, it means that I have decided (albeit unconsciously) that the benefits are not worth the discomfort. So, what I REALLY want is the comfort of doing nothing. and it’s not until the DIScomfort of being alone outweighs the discomfort of fearing rejection that I will set myself in motion. At that time, I will know that what I WANT is to find a relationship because I will see myself doing something about it.
“With regards to the French translations. Of course, those are literal translations of “I should…”, “I want…” and “I need…” But for instance, the phrase “je devrais” does not have the same imperative tone as “I should.” In French, it sounds more like a suggestion, more like “Wouldn’t it be nice if I…” because of the conditional mood. French does not have the same crispness as English for those notions.”
Thank you very much David and Fabrice for your answers, that both make sense to me.
It’s true that there are many possible “negative” feelings, and about the example, that the actions show what we really want, depending on what make us feel more uncomfortable. I guess it might be a mix of both ideas. Because if one feels depressed, they might stay more into the discomfort, because of the depression, instead of wanting the discomfort. Or do they really want to be depressed ? (Open question.)
Actually it is not easy, it seems very intricated. Anyway, it’s cool to be aware of both, and action is an antidote to depression, so for this example, I completely agree that to set oneself in motion is a very good idea !
Regarding the translation, it seems that I understood “should” differently. Or maybe there are different nuances to this word, sometimes more like a “have to”, other times perhaps still a conditional. It’s good also to be aware of those nuances, to understand it more.
Kind regards
Thanks for keeping the dialogue alive, Alissa! The TEAM-CBT that I have developed focuses in part on helping people overcome their
“stuckness,” using paradoxical techniques like Positive Reframing, and more. These are covered in many of the podcasts, including some of the earliest podcasts that focus on the 8 most common types of therapeutic “resistance.” Best, david
Hello David, Rhonda, and Fabrice,
It was really nice to meet Fabrice after a long gap.
The topic Fabrice has started is very special of
Should , Want and Need.
I have heard about this topic in bits and pieces by you in many podcasts and also in your set of 4 podcast of self deaths . I kept thinking a lot about this beautiful concept of Want versus Need. And if we are able to learn technique to balance between Want & Need ,our lives will become much more stress-free and happy .
Buddhist teachings say that the cause of every problem is Desire so they want us to achieve a state with zero desires, which as per them is Nirvana.
Also the Holy book of Hinduism Geeta says further that if the purpose of our desires are to fulfill a duty or to help someone, only in these two cases desires are good and will bring happiness to the person. So desire to eat a Mango will not fall in any of the two😄
But the penultimate question is that if we don’t have desires, life will be very dull and boring. As you had mentioned in podcast number 348 with Dr. Tom Gedman that unless one is in a very very positive state( which is rare like Buddha himself was) then only you can remain in a state of zero feeling otherwise you are bound to fall down and will lead to a very fast relapse .
I also agree that zero feelings or Zero desires state will ultimately lead people into depression therefore I feel the best way is to do positive-reframing of Need and dial it down to Want.So that we get the advantages of desires and leave the disadvantages of it .
As you have mentioned a number of times that FEELING GOOD APP is a very high priority for you but you try to keep it as your “want” and try not to enter this desire in the NEED zone.
Balancing desires on the border between Need and Want is quite challenging
I request that please do a podcast for discussing as how to keep desires in check till want and if possible please develop a self-assessment questionnaire in a podcast with Mark May and Rhonda ,sounds i feel this is a valuable topic for exploration. It can provide listeners with tools and insights to strike a balance between fulfilling their desires for happiness and well-being without becoming enslaved by them.
I hope my message is clear and I am eagerly looking forward to the discussions amongst yourself
warm regards Sanjay
New Delhi , India
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments, Sanjay! Warmly, david